I call Pauline on an evening, and she immediately insists we make it a video call. She takes me on a tour of her Parisian apartment throughout the call, first sat at her kitchen table, and ending up on a chair cosily curled up near her plants, joint in hand throughout. I also see the balcony she films on Instagram for her stories, showing how her neighbourhood congregates; Together but apart.
For most of the time I’ve known Pauline, she has been as analogue as possible. We met five years ago at university. We were in the same student halls, and the same course initially (she switched). She had an empty, dormant Instagram account, an old phone, and I would often get texts from unknown numbers, people who she knew or even strangers she was around, who lent her their phones so she could let me know she was on her way, running late, etc. Throughout this conversation, it’s clear her new investment in cultivating an online presence for herself, for her artistic practice, is something that she feels trepidatious about. Yet her approach to what’s happening around her in Paris, during a global pandemic, is practical, calm, light-hearted.
I’ve been slow to post this interview because of the same affliction Pauline talks about in this conversation. As days and hours warp and blend in self-isolation, it becomes increasingly difficult to commit to any singular task, flitting between activities that end up amounting to a lot of unfulfilled intentions.
Our conversation took place on the 20th of March, 2020 — all timeframes mentioned in the text should be considered with this date in mind.
Pauline, and her work, can be found on Intsagram at @pauline.raybaud
[Text in bold indicates my voice, unbolded indicates Pauline’s.]
Oui - is it Riva?
Yeah!
Hello baby!
How are you?
I'm good. Can you put your video?
I can try…
Come on! Let's see.
[I accept an invite to video call]
Oh, you look so smart!
I'm burnt! I was on the terrace today.
You’ve got a terrace? You're isolating with a terrace?
It's not a terrace, it's just a balcony! I just have space for my ass, you know?
So it's a big balcony?
Ha! Non, no, don't get too excited! [Pauline shows the camera her balcony, which faces many others on the opposite building] Can you see?
Yeah! And I love your balcony videos on Instagram.
Ahhh, really?
It seems a nice way to be inside and to still feel other people at the same time.
Yeah, it's really nice. But today? I don't know if you saw, but there is a guy that let his phone drop! He was out there and the phone just did like pppffff! I was like “Ohhh no!”. And where I live... the neighbour in front of me is a wine merchant? And she wants to do like... have a little basket and put bottles of wine in and you put money and then she gives it to your part of the building.
That's amazing!
It's really good, nah, it's cute. People are getting inventive! I'm doing shopping for a guy that still has to work and when he comes back all the supermarket are closed because they're closed earlier.
{Pauline on her balcony pouring her neighbour wine, April 2020}
What time are the supermarkets closing?
They close at like, eight, nine, max. [Pauline calls later to clarify they close at six] So, yes, I'm doing his shopping and when he comes back from work at like ten, he comes and picks it up. The supermarkets are not that crazy around mine. Every time there is no queue.
There's no queue. How comes it's so peaceful and organised where you are and it's a mess in England?
I know! I just had Artur [a friend in England] on the phone today. He says, like, everything is empty and people are panicking.
I think it's because British people didn't think this could happen to them, and so now it’s come at them all in one go, they freaked out because they just didn't think it would ever touch them. And now it is. They didn't have enough time to have their minds process and think about what the best way to be in this situation would be, you know?
Yeah, I think they have a lot of like American mentality on this as well, like apocalypse! You know, like they think it's the end of the world and they need to like... I can see them… I can see the guys next to Mile End Station, you know, going cray-zy! All those mamas that talk loud, screaming being like, yo, I'm taking like eight packs of toilet paper!
Everybody out for themselves. That's the thing.
It's weird. I mean, in our shops on the first day? People bought like... I'm going to roll a joint because that's what I did all today. I just called people and rolled joints!... I thought I was gonna go crazy creative and stuff… but I'm smoking so much weed... and now I'm just enjoying because I'm thinking about life...
Are you living by yourself right now? How did that happen? Before this happened what you were doing, how did you end up in this situation?
Haha! Well, when was the last time I had you on the phone? When I was planning to go to Belgium? Right?
We definitely… we voice messaged around that time.
So that was the plan. But my grandma didn't move yet because her other flat where she's supposed to go is not finished yet. So it's delayed, so me moving in is delayed. Then my step-mother’s daughter had a flat and she needed to lend it to someone for six months for very cheap rent because she's moving to Thailand or something. She left in January. So, I took the flat!
Amazing. How was it in Paris beforehand? Were people scared about this? Or were they preparing for it in any way at all?
No! Wait, I'll show you my apartment. So it's like this.
[Pauline shows the room on her phone camera]
This is a me going crazy
[She shows a large, white, board with writing and film tracks stuck all over, it sits next to some plants, dividing the space between her bedroom and the kitchen area]
What’s… what is that?
Ugh... that's me working on the film editing. I cut the scenes up, but uh... I set it up yesterday. And now the whole day I just looked at it being like... I don't dare going on my laptop yet! And actually opening [Adobe] premiere…
You know, you have so much time…
But still, it's already five days, you know, here - haha! I’m just doing exercise in the morning, going for a run, going to buy foods and smoke… like I'm smoking my ass off… thinking… I'm thinking a lot and I'm hesitating on silly things.
What things?
Like very stupid things! For example, I started Instagram now and I've never been that comfortable with it. So I'm just putting stories from my balcony, like “I think this moment is kind of cute and I want to share it.” But then I'm like… I don't know.
You started considering the trap of Instagram. Just keep doing whatever you want!
I don't know why, but this Instagram thing became really funny at some point because, suddenly, I realise how you can meet people virtually. I've never done that before, but you know how social I am. So when I like something, I'm just sending messages, saying, “yo, really like what you do! Blablabla.” I like to talk to people in like Iran or Russia. I just talk to all those people from everywhere and I'm finding it really funny.
You can't stop travelling!
It's like having Tinder or something! Y'know? I just like talking, honestly, with people from everywhere. And lots of people have very interesting thoughts, like how different they are living their confinement. Yeah, it's really interesting. I still see a lot of people that take it jokily, and I kind of like it. I like that people make memes about it.
It's good to have some sort of dark humour. But at the same time, I worry that… I think a lot of people think this is gonna be over in like two weeks or a month. And I think they're gonna be in a bad state if it's going to go a lot longer than that?
I don't understand why the UK is still not on quarantine...
We kind of are. Just today they announced that they're shutting the bars and the restaurants. They just did everything really staggered and slowly, and who knows how intentional that was versus it just being incompetence. That's the never-ending question haha…
It's really weird. And are you happy to be in England and not in Israel right now?
When I left, I felt really good about leaving, like it was the right time. I was ready for the next thing. Ready to try and take myself more seriously. Now with all this happening, on the one hand, I'm happy that I'm close to my family so that I can be here for them and help them out in any way I need to. But it means I'm stuck living inside the house with three elderly people! I could have been in an environment where I was essentially going to be just as social as before. When I was living on the kibbutz, it was basically isolated anyway. I just have to know that I did the right thing for me at the time, so I can't regret anything.
And can you not go back?
There's no flights at the minute. People aren't allowed to fly to Israel and I wouldn't want to take the chance anyway. I wouldn't want to leave my family at this point.
Mmm, yep. You did your quarantine just before babba! Double time of isolation for you! You have lots of things to think about. You're not at the end!
You know, it's really challenging me though, in a good way I think, because while I was in the kibbutz, I was like, “I'm gonna read so much and I'm going to paint so much!” and I started doing that a little bit more than I normally would have…
But not as much?
Not as much. I got really absorbed in the social aspect. So now I can use this time to do that, hopefully. But it's strange because it feels like I'm having a bit of a problem with art and books at the minute… everything seems so irrelevant like it's talking about the world as it normally is, everything speaking to normal conditions. Hopefully, it will pass. I hope it's just the shift period. I don't know how long it will be, in your mind how long do you think? What did the authorities say? How is it being communicated?
It's well communicated. To be honest, it's well communicated. Every day at eight everyone goes on the balcony and claps for the doctors and the people helping in the hospital. That's why we clap. It's nice. And I’m just next to a hospital so they really scream where I am. They're really like “merci!!". It's really cute. Then at eight starts the daily news of the country… they take one hour just about corona and the impacts, now they just did a series of approximations of how much quarantine helps in the process of the sickness. They show different countries and different ways of blocking the country and how much one way helps and the other. So, yeah, you can have quite a good view. It's true that the media is only talking about this at the moment, but I think it's well communicated. Every day on the news, they take a good twenty minutes to talk about how we should thank the little jobs that are still going on. There’s a national fund that is being raised for the truck drivers, people cleaning the streets, all the people that are still doing daily survival things that we need in the city. And you have lots of people asking for ‘Kid Care’ because both of the parents are doctors or both of the parents have jobs in like stores that sell food and stuff. There is a website where you can register and you say where you live, they give around you people that needed help. We're already 45,000 young people who registered to help. So it’s, yeah… it's going well. It's actually going ok.
It sounds really organised.
Yeah! France is being really patriotic at the moment. It's weird. I'm kind of happy I'm here. I hesitated at first to go with lots of friends to the south of France in a house, and just enjoy there and not think about Paris. But then some of us in that group, we were like, “wait, but you want to be in Paris when this is happening! You want to see how France deals with it, too” — you don't want to be outside in the countryside and be stuck on your phone to check what is actually happening in Paris. You want to see it from your own eyes! Go to the shop seeing who is still outside, see the policemen stop people in the street and ask for the paper, because we have a paper we need to sign every day when we go out and put the time of when we're going out, the reason why we're going out, and your address so they can check you stay in your hood. Basics only, like a pharmacy, food shopping, taking dogs out, personal sports.
It sounds like being in Paris is good for you because it makes you feel like you're still connected to people in a real way? You're not just relying on the Internet.
Yeah, yeah, I think so. It's true. It's weird, but France is my country, and I think, you know… I left when I could. I was eighteen. I left straightaway to the UK.
I remember you saying you had a dream of London that didn’t come true?
I think I had no dream from London. That's the thing. I had no idea how long it would be. I didn't even know CSM. You know? I just applied.
You once told me that in Paris, you can't go out and dress wild because people will judge you, but in London you could explore that…
I think on this, it really helped me. But, you know, when I went to study, I didn't know what was CSM, I never heard of the school before! I just told my mum I wanted to do art and she was like, “okay, the only school you can go is this one, I won't accept another one” and I was like “okay!” — I just applied. You know, I went to London only once before with my grandma, seeing Buckingham Palace and things… so I had no idea of how London would be. I think London gave me lessons, London made me grow a lot and made me realise lots of important things, actually. But I always had the feeling of being misplaced, you know? Missing out. That's why I travelled so much. I travelled so much. I've never travelled so much as when I was in London. It's crazy how much I travelled!
It was like every two minutes you were in another country whenever I tried to meet up with you!
It was crazy! I don't know how I did it. Like, really! I moved a lot, but now I think it's the total opposite and I think I needed it. At the same time, when I was moving so much in London, I still had so much pressure that I would create, create, create, create! Forced myself to create. And now I'm in front of my work and I'm like… I don't know? I'm questioning a lot. Okay, Instagram is just a platform, but to me, it's me starting to show my work and it's the first time I really do it. I have a website, I didn't even put my link on Instagram yet, because I'm not ready. I can't. It's like, I need to look at all my old work, decide what to show, what it's worth, what's worth showing, what I wanted to say in this one, in this one, in this one etc. try to explain a bit and try to show a bit of me. But then all of this quarantine thing happened and I'm like, “wait, you're showing all of this stuff?”… it seems to me almost irrelevant.
Yeah, it's the same thing as when I'm trying to watch something and it feels irrelevant. Like we're looking for ways to make sense of our world all the time, largely that’s what art is supposed to help us do? So much of it feels disconnected from what people need help making sense with right now… it's a weird time for our relationship to art if you're making it or if you're consuming it, I think.
Yeah. Yeah. Hundred percent.
But I do like what you've been posting!
Yeah?
Yeah! I was like “how comes I've never seen this stuff before?!” There is the video with your cabinet or something? Maybe it’s your grandmother’s? I really love that one.
Oh, thank you. It's weird because it's a very personal one, but I didn't dare showing the rest. So everyone saw this and I'm like “oh no, not this one! I'm not ready for this one!” but it's there anyway. It was really stressing me, cause I see my profile almost as a website, I was thinking about the colours. I want it to look very clean, you know? Like no pictures of me on holiday or something!
{Photograph of Pauline’s work: The Attic}
Keeping it professional…
I tried to show actually what I do and, I don't know… haha! Then I started doing an album of my future posts so I wouldn't worry about it. It was like playing Tetris. I would just put on my phone all the pictures that I like that I've done, the projects, and then try to organise to see how one came after the other and stuff. So I did that. Now with the Coronavirus all the post I was going to do, I look at them and I'm like “eurghhhh… I don't know if I should post this, it's irrelevant.” Like, now, the picture I was going to put after… it’s a picture of me which is really irrelevant. It's just me, a picture that a friend took on the set of a short film she made, but it's really summery and it's with a platter of cheese, it’s really kind of baroque.... and I never put pictures like this, you know, but this one I wanted to put it just because there is my face, I want people to realise that it's me who is doing the work. I wanted to put one ‘identity’ kind of picture, but now it’s like, I'm not going to post this very very summery, very french... like, I'm there with a fan in the garden, you know?
I think you should post it.
I don't know! I wanted to write a post with this. That would be like… I want to explain that I didn't realise how I actually took for granted all the simple pleasures in life. And it's now that you can't have them that you realise how beautiful they were, actually… maybe I'll just go for it.
I think you should. Also, how is everything going with your relationship stuff?
So two weeks ago or three weeks ago now, we kind of decided to finish. He was living at mine but it was starting to be really heavy. So I told him he can't live with me anymore, and he understood it and he took his stuff and he left. But we kept... we saw each other maybe two or three times and still connected, with full passion. We were just like… we know we can't be together on those terms. And maybe we're not the best match, actually, but we really love each other. And as long as there is no pain and we just accept that one way or another we're not going to be together at some point. But for now, we like each other. We know each other. We are good friends. So let's just be that for one another. If we want to call, we call, if we don't, we don’t, but now that it's confinement — the night before confinement he came over and we were together, and at first we hesitated to be confined together… because you kind of want sex when your confined... but I was like “no, listen, we've just tried to live together and it didn't work…"
So let's not intensively live together…
Yeah, let’s maybe not do that! So he's at a friend's, but we call every day because now everyone calls everyone! And me, I realise now that I really don't know how to be alone. I realise like it’s… it's a fact. I don't know. Even to work and stuff, I need a presence next to me. I need someone that is actually in the same motivation as me, like if I find someone that has the same motivation… that's why I loved so much, Ashley [former roommate in London], and that's why we worked so good together, but it's hard to find. It's hard to find those people.
{Photograph of Pauline’s work: “A Scriptless Film”}
It’s a challenge. You have to be able to know that you can be alone and that you don't need others that way… they can be a comfort, but when you know that you can do well on your own as well, you stop… you stop needing so much from other people, and hopefully, other people become less of a problem. I think…
Yeah. Yeah, It's crazy how much I ask people for. I need people to confirm my thoughts. Really. Really, really!
Does it help you organise them?
Yeah... and I'm… I think I'm just really shy? I think I have a shy weirdness, but at the same time, I can be behind the camera or in front of a camera and not have a problem. But when it comes to a different situation… actually it's only one thing. When it comes to showing or talking about my art. More showing my art. It's for me a real, real challenge. This Instagram thing is really hard. When the first weeks, when I had like three pictures, I was like “oh, my God, what am I doing? What do people do? What do I say? How do I show? Is it interesting?” My man was going crazy. I would send him like five propositions of pictures asking him which one is really interesting. And even now for one damn picture, I need to ask you! Can you still put pictures of chilling in a garden when it's confinements everywhere? I don't know!
You probably care way more about your art than you care about, let’s say, asking a stranger for a cigarette! One of those things is very personal, one of those things is very impersonal. So you can be very outgoing, in day to day life, and at the same time when it comes to being forthright about the things that are the closest to you because it's more vulnerable, you care about it more if you were to feel rejected after sharing it. It's so much harder to swallow.
Yeah, yeah… like I had a date, a really bad date with a guy. We met on the street in a very cute way. He almost ran me over with his bike because I wasn't looking I was being really "Lalala" and then he asked me for my number. He took me for a drink. But it was so bad! He was really not my type. He was a theatre teacher, so at first, I was like “hmmm.. interesting?” but then he was telling me he basically fucked his life. He has two kids with a wife, he tried to be an actor, but then he did stuff but got bored of it and tried to open a school. But he never performed with the school yet. And now he wants to help a friend that is growing potatoes in France? And he was really like… at some point, he stopped and he was like “I didn't tell you, but I need to tell you. I really have something for Gingers!” When someone says that to me, it's over. End of the game!
It’s so impersonal. It's like they don’t…. they don't see you. They just see “Ginger”.
I hate it, I don't like it. So, yeah, it was just really, really bad. It was really bad. But I don't know why I told you about this first? I was going somewhere with it...
Hahaha, yes you were going somewhere with it.
No! I've lost it.
That’s okay! Do they talk about how long they think that you're going to keep these same conditions in France?
They said at first two weeks but now on the TV, they said maybe it's gonna be a bit longer. I think we’re going to have to be like this for months. I think it's reasonable. We can do that. It's better than to have three months of like sickness everywhere, like let's have one month's really hard, then that's it.
[Pauline’s neighbour comes to her door to fetch the groceries she bought for him]
One second… oh fuck, he's gonna see I smoke weed here, there's stuff everywhere!
[She goes to the door and they have a conversation in French for a few minutes]
I was like to him “I want to offer you some soup!” and he's like, “I'm not going to eat soup.” He asked me only for cheese and baguettes…
What's his problem with soup?
I don't know! But I put some tomatoes in there, I was like, “I still put tomatoes, I hope you like tomatoes!” Poor guy, working hard...
What does he do?
He's a security guard. They need to be there. Security men! Everything that is technical, people repairing elevators all of the stuff, you have to keep them.
It's all the jobs that aren't well paid.
Yeah, it's crazy, right? It's still the same people that are getting exposed and risk it and the rich people can work from home.
But wait… so after two weeks, what does France seem to think will happen?
Some articles say they will stop the confinement in two weeks, but they're going to be more severe with the walking and going out. Then on the news, they said they might extend so I'm not sure. I think they will extend.
How long in your head are you prepared to be in. Living the way you are right now?
Oh, I can go like this for months! Hahaha, I'm okay with that! I think I need to fight my demons right now. Like, really… I'm happy I can help there and there, and yeah, it's really hard because it's been five days now and I still didn't actually do all the things that I would do, but I guess I'm gonna have to at some point, I'll go crazy anyways if I do it or not, but I'd rather go crazy doing it than not doing it.
I think you're right. I've told myself I want to read more.
I told myself this as well! But then I'm not taking the time. I say to myself “OK. Listen to yourself. What would you like to be doing right now?” And then I'm jumping from one thing to the other, to the other, and I'm like “Girl! You don't know what you want to be doing right now!” and now I tell you this, and I would like to not think and just take a book, I want to read for a long time and take notes. But then my head is like “but you said you would write the script for this thing and you've written only ONE out of FIVE… and you said you would do the editing… etc” and this board is just looking at me — being massive in my twenty-metre square apartment.
The board definitely has a personality. It's taking a lot of space up in your room and it's giving you some attitude. I can feel that. You can hear it talking to you.
It's definitely doing this! The problem is I would like to record myself, but I don't have a microphone, and now everything is closed. I don't know, I'm trying, I'm trying to find a microphone. It's for the voice for the short I'm working on. I was like “Ok! let's do it”. But the editing is very complex as you saw — it's a really weird text, a weird concept overall. Haha! I don't know. I know it's going to take me lots of energy to do this.
I think it's reasonable that you don't have a lot of energy to give it. Right now, you're spending a lot of mental energy adapting to your environment. It's a lot to ask of yourself to start pouring your energy into one concentrated thing.
Exactly. But then I know I need to do it because if I don't, I'm going to wake up after one months of all of this and just be like... fuck!
{Pauline on the set of Diana Maclean’s short film}